有关对事物的认知

erix

分布式认知任务中的表象
附件里的.pps是对张家杰博士关于认知任务中，对一件事物外在表象(External Representation)和内在表象(Internal Representation) 对认知过程影响的研究文章的提纲。这篇文章中，张博士通过将汉诺塔(TOH)问题的四个规则通过外在或是内在的表现方法，来分析外在表象对人的认知过程的影响，很有创意的研究，推荐大家看一看，总结的难免有疏漏，这两天内给出中文翻译。

[ 本帖最后由 erix 于 2007-7-21 12:36 编辑 ]

老包

关键的问题是生物医学信息学的对象机体非常喜欢嘲弄人类的思维规律。她会告诉你另外一些知识，如汉诺塔的小柱有时坚挺，有时萎软；小盘子象细胞一样到一定年龄会死亡，所以你必须在此以前解决问题，否则.......遇到这种情况，汉诺塔的解决方案也许会大乱。

老包

以下文章也许可作参考：

http://www.jos.org.cn/1000-9825/16/1717.pdf

erix

多谢老包回帖
这篇文章的主旨是分析一个简单的问题 ”汉诺塔问题“ 通过四种形式的展现是如何被人脑认知和处理的，着重点在分析人脑的思维过程上，而不是以汉诺塔问题来解决复杂的生物医学问题。生物医学问题还是需要通过实验、循证的方法来事实求是的解决的～

小耿未来

Thanks a lot for share.
Have you read The Psychology of Everyday Things by Donald A. Norman? There is a chapter in it: Knowledge in the head and in the world. He thinks they are different. It sheds some light on the representations of distributed cognitive tasks. What is memory? Is it a copy of external environment? No. Memory is an abstract representation of external world. Based on a number of everyday things, He finally drew a conclusion that to err is human.
From your presentation, it seems like human being is good at thinking logically. Is it true or not? Apparently, it is not the case. Reversely, I think the theory of schemata is arguably scientific.

老包

初步浏览了一下分布式认知理论（还没有来得及深究），感觉此理论与我们的生物医学知识整合论（BMKI）的“知识背景理论”十分相似，都把视点投到知识背景上。但BMKI感觉对象知识与其背景知识贯通一气，不像萝卜与泥土一样清晰可分，所以只提“背景”二字。而欲要把知识分成一般认识下"mind"内和"mind"外，更是难以想象（除非对“mind”给了新的不同与一般认识的限定）。所以既然提出了“分布式认知理论”，相必“内外知识和边界”是清析可分的，否则就无“分布”可言。但3楼提供的参考文献中却说Wright等的模型“缺乏对模型中元素位置(内部或者外部)的明确定义”。

因而我就有点迷糊了，不知那位了解这一基本问题，可以赐教一二。

erix

Thank you for the reply
I'll find a copy of that book to read, thank you for your recommendation. Actually Donald A. Norman is the second author of this paper, and this paper was published after the book. So the theory in this paper is should be much solid than in the book. The purpose of the research is to propose a theoretical framework of distributed representations and a methodology of representational analysis for the study of distributed cognitive tasks. The traditional approach to cognition is to assume cognition task exclusively in the mind. The keywords of this study should be: distributed representation, hierarchical task analysis, interaction between internal and external representations. I don't think this presentation stated that "human being is good at thinking logically".

[ 本帖最后由 erix 于 2007-7-25 12:56 编辑 ]

erix

包老师您提供的那片文章还没有仔细阅读研究, 但我想下面几个例子是否可以说明知识的"内外之分"
比如本篇文章中对于汉诺塔问题的四条规则,我们可以让受试者用脑子记住这些规则(internal representation),也可以用硬件限制的方法来使受试者进行实验时不必回忆规则而遵从规则(external representation).类似的还有,对于数字的概念,neuf,neun,nine和九还有9都是同一个知识不同的外在表象,而在每个人脑中"九"的概念究竟是什么样子的就要因人而异了.

[ 本帖最后由 erix 于 2007-7-25 04:45 编辑 ]

老包

谢谢erix。

也只能如此了。只能从应用的角度（而不是从知识本质角度）加以规定，什么知识为“inside mind”知识，什么是"outside mind"知识。

小耿未来

I agree that the presentation did not state that human being is good at think logically. I was vey confused at the course of the deduction and inference---after all, I have not read the original paper. What is that "this paper"?  you mean what you narrated in the presentation? I attached the original. Hope I got it correctly.

[ 本帖最后由 小耿未来 于 2007-7-25 16:44 编辑 ]

小耿未来

The paper derived from Prof. Zhang's PhD thesis. It seemed that he survived. At first, I am very curious about similarity of Prof. zhang's idea to that of prof. Donald A.Norman KNOWLEDGE IN THE HEAD AND IN THE WORLD. I mean the essence of idea, not the specific details. After reading the original paper, I eventually got to the buttom of the question. If you read the references of the paper, you will see it was heavily influenced by the theory of Donald A. Norman. I guess he was the advisor of Prof.Zhang. Thank God, he got a goooooooooooooood advisor.

erix

Yeah, "this paper" is the paper I indicated in the slides. Thank you for posting it here. May be you are an expert, but I personally am not good at talking about the "essence of idea" without knowing the "specific details". Anyway, I hope the slides is helpful for you and also I thank you for thanking god for Dr.Zhang .